HEADSHAKERS:
PRODUCTS TO HELP :
http://www.horsemask.com/Main.html
http://www.horsemask.com/headshaking.html
Equilibrium nose net
Global Herbs Pollenex
http://www.horsemask.com/Main.html
http://www.horsemask.com/headshaking.html
Equilibrium nose net
Global Herbs Pollenex
HORSE OWNERS COMMENT
1 . It can be related to diet, I know of three horses (head shakers) who when their graing / diet was changed the headshaking stopped. There are anecdotal links to high potassium levels which can be reduced by removing the high potassium source (rye grass or clover) and feeding salt , definitely worth looking at this site http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/e...aking/messages
http://www.voicesforhorses.co.uk/adviceandinfo/read_82_Eye-treatment-for-horses-that-headshake.html
2. My horse is a head shaker. He is 23 years old and only developed the condition in the last 3 years. His head shaking is only apparent in winter when the weather is very cold and there is sunshine. So basically he is photosensitive. He will not show any symptoms at any time other than under those weather conditions. Sometimes the reaction is mild - just like a pin prick on his nose. Other times it is quite severe as its like a bee has stung him on the end of his nose and the shock runs up through the neck and down his body affecting his stride - to the extent that he will stagger a little. We have learned to live with it as, basically, there are only a few days in winter when the sunshines strongly.
3. Our big ginger lad developed this the first summer we had him (we bought him in March when no pollen around so he may well have had it before). The first year a nose net stopped it about 90% but in the 2nd summer he became so bad that even though he had a nose net in the field he still stood there all day headshaking. We bought him a Guardian facemask after recommendations on here. It blocks 95% of UV light which can be one of the triggers. You have to order it from the website in the US and it's not cheap - about £80 I think. It reduced the headshaking by about 20% I'd say. The other thing which really helped was Pollen-Ex from Global Herbs (again ordered online). I'm not sure how it differs from their Shake Relief but someone at our yard had had good results with it so we gave it a go. It stopped the headshaking completely within 3 days so we'll definitely be using that again this summer.
4. . Mines a heashaker too - shes affected by midges and other bugs and is worst around april/may time when there are loads around but she headshakes mildly for most of the year - she has just started again after having nov and dec headshaking free. She has started blowing her nose and rubbing it on her leg and grabbing at the reins when on aloose rein - these are her symtoms for the start. Later it turns into striking out with front legs, tossing head around, broncing, violently rubbing nose on legs,road,me-anything she can get too if I dont use a net.
She is unbearable in april without any control but I control it with a nosenet and and ear veil. I dont use any supplements as have found the combination of the 2 works well and reduces it by about 80-90%. The rest I can manage.
If I dont use the ear veil its a lot worse, if I dont use either I am chucked around all other the place, hat again this summer.
5. I have two very severe headshakers and nose nets made no difference and exercise made the headshaking even worse. It is a known fact exercise induces headshaking.
Please note, I am by no means a vet but I do have some advice for anyone who thinks they might have a headshaker.
I can totally sympathise with the desperate feeling of wanting to find a cure or something that works but I have wasted so much money on lotions, potions, biscuits and herbs when I should have gone straight to my vet.
6. My mare is very sensitive to rapeseed and hawthorn pollens in particular but also a range of garden pollens, and to spray fertilisers/weed killers etc etc - she is on spirulina and J-herb to support her immune and respiratory system and currently Trinity Consultants AH181 which is going pretty well, only the odd twitch at the moment and the rape is starting to flower and the whole farm is sprayed currently, haven't had to resort to the nose net. She also did well last year on Global Herbs Shakefree and Pollenex in combination - definitely needed the Pollenex.
7.
There are 101 reasons or more why your horse might headshake and all cases differ.
I hope your horse is insured and is covered for diagnostics etc.
8. I also have an ideopathic headshaker due to facial pain syndrome. Dancinghorse gave a good account of the disease and you must go to the vet for a diagnosis. My 5 year old mare had platinum coils put in the nerve back in October and i'm afraid it hasn't worked to date so considering a second operation as the success rate goes up from 50% to 80% with the second operation. The diagnosis was simple after all other possibilities were investigated. She went to Bristol and had a nerve block and stopped HS instantly when ridden. It is a terrible disease and we have to do all we can to make sure they aren't in pain. Mine only HS when ridden at the moment and is OK at rest so if the second operation also fails then she will be retired until the point she starts doing it at rest.I have a mare who started head shaking at age 11 for some reason. I put on a nose net by Equilibrium and she is very happy and works really well. I have tried different remedies but not found one that works.
9 I find that the headshaking gets worse in similar conditions that cause hayfever in people - so thats spring when there is a gently breeze and the pollen is flying around.
Unfortunately head shaking seems to be more a more common. I bred another mare who at the age of 8 suddenly started headshaking. The vet said there are so many things in the horses environment (including fields which have been sprayed) its very difficult to get to the route cause. Again she was quite happy in the nose net.
http://www.equilibriumproducts.com/h...eg_muzzle_net/
10.... I have a seasonal head shaker - coincides with the start of the pollen season, but allergy tests all came back negative. Tried nose nets, local honey, Nostrilvet, steroids, anti-hysthamines, drinking wine (me, not him) - you name it.
YO suggested that I try Nupafeed Magnesium Calmer, as several people had found a side effect to calming was a reduction in head shaking. Tried it and we're just about to start our third spring/summer on it
11. my 4 yr old mare went through surgery in April 2011 at Rossdales in Newmarket, after extensive testing including blocks. She had the nerve cut and lazered on both sides through sinus flaps. The surgeon decided for this approach over coils. It probably has better prognosis but its more invasive.
She was in hospital for 2 weeks. I took two weeks off so I could travel to see her everyday. I found it very hard seeing her going through the recovery, but I feel it gave her a reason to keep going!
We had some difficult stages and the recovery is still ongoing. I'm still have moments when I feel so relieved and can't believe she made it home.
When she came home, for the first month her symptoms were worse from the surgery trauma, but over the last few weeks I've noticed a definite lack of twitching, snorting and rubbing. We've been out for a few walks in hand with no symptoms. I would say at this stage there is improvement. Before the op she would have twitching and rubbing whilst standing still, head tossing and snorting when moving quickly. Her behaviour changed completely, to near on unmanageable, in the summer. Now, she is as chilled and as loving as she normally would be in the winter.
12. Just wanted to say my mare is a headshaker too, she only started last year and it came on over night, she quickly became unrideable, she shakes so violently and kicks herself in face and will stumble and fall over, she is ok out in the field, it is only when ridden (at the moment) i tried everything suggested to me by vet and friends, various masks, ear veils, nose net, different bits, bitless, nothing made any difference and so resigned to the fact that she would have to retired, untill a friend told me to try an equilibrium (not sure if spelt correctly) face mask/nose net, as i'd already tried all types of masks i couldn't see that it would make any difference but amazingly it stopped the shaking COMPLETELY and i was able to ride her all summer, it has now started again this year, i rode one day and she was absolutely fine, rode the next day and was violently shaking, i put her face mask/nose net on the next day and no shaking again, we're now riding again every day with no problems what so ever!
. Head shakers support group http://www.webtrenddesigns.com.au/hs.html
SYMPTOMS .
http://www.headshaking.com/symptoms.htm
http://www.squidoo.com/head_shaking
http://headshakingsyndrome.com/
http://www.voicesforhorses.co.uk/adviceandinfo/read_82_Eye-treatment-for-horses-that-headshake.html
2. My horse is a head shaker. He is 23 years old and only developed the condition in the last 3 years. His head shaking is only apparent in winter when the weather is very cold and there is sunshine. So basically he is photosensitive. He will not show any symptoms at any time other than under those weather conditions. Sometimes the reaction is mild - just like a pin prick on his nose. Other times it is quite severe as its like a bee has stung him on the end of his nose and the shock runs up through the neck and down his body affecting his stride - to the extent that he will stagger a little. We have learned to live with it as, basically, there are only a few days in winter when the sunshines strongly.
3. Our big ginger lad developed this the first summer we had him (we bought him in March when no pollen around so he may well have had it before). The first year a nose net stopped it about 90% but in the 2nd summer he became so bad that even though he had a nose net in the field he still stood there all day headshaking. We bought him a Guardian facemask after recommendations on here. It blocks 95% of UV light which can be one of the triggers. You have to order it from the website in the US and it's not cheap - about £80 I think. It reduced the headshaking by about 20% I'd say. The other thing which really helped was Pollen-Ex from Global Herbs (again ordered online). I'm not sure how it differs from their Shake Relief but someone at our yard had had good results with it so we gave it a go. It stopped the headshaking completely within 3 days so we'll definitely be using that again this summer.
4. . Mines a heashaker too - shes affected by midges and other bugs and is worst around april/may time when there are loads around but she headshakes mildly for most of the year - she has just started again after having nov and dec headshaking free. She has started blowing her nose and rubbing it on her leg and grabbing at the reins when on aloose rein - these are her symtoms for the start. Later it turns into striking out with front legs, tossing head around, broncing, violently rubbing nose on legs,road,me-anything she can get too if I dont use a net.
She is unbearable in april without any control but I control it with a nosenet and and ear veil. I dont use any supplements as have found the combination of the 2 works well and reduces it by about 80-90%. The rest I can manage.
If I dont use the ear veil its a lot worse, if I dont use either I am chucked around all other the place, hat again this summer.
5. I have two very severe headshakers and nose nets made no difference and exercise made the headshaking even worse. It is a known fact exercise induces headshaking.
Please note, I am by no means a vet but I do have some advice for anyone who thinks they might have a headshaker.
I can totally sympathise with the desperate feeling of wanting to find a cure or something that works but I have wasted so much money on lotions, potions, biscuits and herbs when I should have gone straight to my vet.
6. My mare is very sensitive to rapeseed and hawthorn pollens in particular but also a range of garden pollens, and to spray fertilisers/weed killers etc etc - she is on spirulina and J-herb to support her immune and respiratory system and currently Trinity Consultants AH181 which is going pretty well, only the odd twitch at the moment and the rape is starting to flower and the whole farm is sprayed currently, haven't had to resort to the nose net. She also did well last year on Global Herbs Shakefree and Pollenex in combination - definitely needed the Pollenex.
7.
There are 101 reasons or more why your horse might headshake and all cases differ.
I hope your horse is insured and is covered for diagnostics etc.
8. I also have an ideopathic headshaker due to facial pain syndrome. Dancinghorse gave a good account of the disease and you must go to the vet for a diagnosis. My 5 year old mare had platinum coils put in the nerve back in October and i'm afraid it hasn't worked to date so considering a second operation as the success rate goes up from 50% to 80% with the second operation. The diagnosis was simple after all other possibilities were investigated. She went to Bristol and had a nerve block and stopped HS instantly when ridden. It is a terrible disease and we have to do all we can to make sure they aren't in pain. Mine only HS when ridden at the moment and is OK at rest so if the second operation also fails then she will be retired until the point she starts doing it at rest.I have a mare who started head shaking at age 11 for some reason. I put on a nose net by Equilibrium and she is very happy and works really well. I have tried different remedies but not found one that works.
9 I find that the headshaking gets worse in similar conditions that cause hayfever in people - so thats spring when there is a gently breeze and the pollen is flying around.
Unfortunately head shaking seems to be more a more common. I bred another mare who at the age of 8 suddenly started headshaking. The vet said there are so many things in the horses environment (including fields which have been sprayed) its very difficult to get to the route cause. Again she was quite happy in the nose net.
http://www.equilibriumproducts.com/h...eg_muzzle_net/
10.... I have a seasonal head shaker - coincides with the start of the pollen season, but allergy tests all came back negative. Tried nose nets, local honey, Nostrilvet, steroids, anti-hysthamines, drinking wine (me, not him) - you name it.
YO suggested that I try Nupafeed Magnesium Calmer, as several people had found a side effect to calming was a reduction in head shaking. Tried it and we're just about to start our third spring/summer on it
11. my 4 yr old mare went through surgery in April 2011 at Rossdales in Newmarket, after extensive testing including blocks. She had the nerve cut and lazered on both sides through sinus flaps. The surgeon decided for this approach over coils. It probably has better prognosis but its more invasive.
She was in hospital for 2 weeks. I took two weeks off so I could travel to see her everyday. I found it very hard seeing her going through the recovery, but I feel it gave her a reason to keep going!
We had some difficult stages and the recovery is still ongoing. I'm still have moments when I feel so relieved and can't believe she made it home.
When she came home, for the first month her symptoms were worse from the surgery trauma, but over the last few weeks I've noticed a definite lack of twitching, snorting and rubbing. We've been out for a few walks in hand with no symptoms. I would say at this stage there is improvement. Before the op she would have twitching and rubbing whilst standing still, head tossing and snorting when moving quickly. Her behaviour changed completely, to near on unmanageable, in the summer. Now, she is as chilled and as loving as she normally would be in the winter.
12. Just wanted to say my mare is a headshaker too, she only started last year and it came on over night, she quickly became unrideable, she shakes so violently and kicks herself in face and will stumble and fall over, she is ok out in the field, it is only when ridden (at the moment) i tried everything suggested to me by vet and friends, various masks, ear veils, nose net, different bits, bitless, nothing made any difference and so resigned to the fact that she would have to retired, untill a friend told me to try an equilibrium (not sure if spelt correctly) face mask/nose net, as i'd already tried all types of masks i couldn't see that it would make any difference but amazingly it stopped the shaking COMPLETELY and i was able to ride her all summer, it has now started again this year, i rode one day and she was absolutely fine, rode the next day and was violently shaking, i put her face mask/nose net on the next day and no shaking again, we're now riding again every day with no problems what so ever!
. Head shakers support group http://www.webtrenddesigns.com.au/hs.html
SYMPTOMS .
http://www.headshaking.com/symptoms.htm
http://www.squidoo.com/head_shaking
http://headshakingsyndrome.com/
Advice:
1, If you are feeding any Legume foods such as Lucerne (Alfalfa), clover in paddock in large quantities or as hay, peas or beers, then stop them for a few weeks and see if there is any difference in behaviour.
Legumes are known to cause photosensitisation (reaction to bright light) and also cause Mudfever type symptoms in horses with white areas.
Gwyntbryn, interesting about the arthritis in your horses mandibular joint, this can also be brought about by people hanging onto the tongue to keep the horses mouth open.
2. I poisoned all the clover in my paddock and started to feed salt and it pretty much cured my TB mare who had head shaken for the previous 3 summers (just 2 days instead of 2 months). There are many links to potassium spikes in spring growth and irritation o the trigeminal nerve in the face, salt helps to reduce K through urination. Worth giving salt as cheap and most horses have too little in their diets , they cannot get enough from salt licks.
.. Make sure your horses teeth/back and tack have all been recently checked. Rule those issues out.
.. Keep a diary detailing all that you see and believe to relate to the headshaking. Include climate, time of year, time of day, if the horse is indoors or outdoors, if its windy, raining and if it does it when in work or relaxed. Literally everything you see. See if your horse headshakes in the dark (if you can). Be as detailed as you can and over a good period of time.
.. Go to your vet with your diary. You will find that a diary is very helpful as it is part of the investigation! Crutial infact.
.. Discuss all options with your vet and discuss how you can take an invesigation forward. You will find that diagnositcs can be carried out in an attempt to discover the cause. Skin allergy tests can also be done to see if your horse is allergic to anything resulting in desensitisation vaccines given over a long period of time. Operations can be had- but they do carry risk and do not always cure.
I have an allergic headshaker. He is allergic to 9 different things including pollens and his own skin dust. He is on a course of vaccines now to build up his immunity to them. He was reacting badly to the pollens and it caused irratation up his nose. Exercise was affected as during work he would breath more deeply and the pollens would irritate.
I have an ideopathic headshaker (facial nerve pain) who has since had a nerve laser operation in the face. He suffers from neurological pain. He has no allergies. Success of the operation is to be confirmed as he has only just had this at Newmarket. I do know it doesnt always cure it and I do know that not all horses get through it because they face trauma (rub the face after the operation and do not stop).
Generally nerve face pain is very painful. He either had to have the operation or I put him down. Either way- I could loose this horse but I had to try.
Both horses showed similarties in their headshaking:
Nose rubbing - itchy especially after working.
shaking of the head
Differences:
The nerve (ideopathic) headshakers headshaking progressed from what I thought was seasonal to shaking his head all the time. A vertical head toss and he snorted alot.
The pollen headshaker only showed his irritation during work.
All in all- headshaking is very uncomfortable for the horse. I would go to your vet!!!!!
1, If you are feeding any Legume foods such as Lucerne (Alfalfa), clover in paddock in large quantities or as hay, peas or beers, then stop them for a few weeks and see if there is any difference in behaviour.
Legumes are known to cause photosensitisation (reaction to bright light) and also cause Mudfever type symptoms in horses with white areas.
Gwyntbryn, interesting about the arthritis in your horses mandibular joint, this can also be brought about by people hanging onto the tongue to keep the horses mouth open.
2. I poisoned all the clover in my paddock and started to feed salt and it pretty much cured my TB mare who had head shaken for the previous 3 summers (just 2 days instead of 2 months). There are many links to potassium spikes in spring growth and irritation o the trigeminal nerve in the face, salt helps to reduce K through urination. Worth giving salt as cheap and most horses have too little in their diets , they cannot get enough from salt licks.
.. Make sure your horses teeth/back and tack have all been recently checked. Rule those issues out.
.. Keep a diary detailing all that you see and believe to relate to the headshaking. Include climate, time of year, time of day, if the horse is indoors or outdoors, if its windy, raining and if it does it when in work or relaxed. Literally everything you see. See if your horse headshakes in the dark (if you can). Be as detailed as you can and over a good period of time.
.. Go to your vet with your diary. You will find that a diary is very helpful as it is part of the investigation! Crutial infact.
.. Discuss all options with your vet and discuss how you can take an invesigation forward. You will find that diagnositcs can be carried out in an attempt to discover the cause. Skin allergy tests can also be done to see if your horse is allergic to anything resulting in desensitisation vaccines given over a long period of time. Operations can be had- but they do carry risk and do not always cure.
I have an allergic headshaker. He is allergic to 9 different things including pollens and his own skin dust. He is on a course of vaccines now to build up his immunity to them. He was reacting badly to the pollens and it caused irratation up his nose. Exercise was affected as during work he would breath more deeply and the pollens would irritate.
I have an ideopathic headshaker (facial nerve pain) who has since had a nerve laser operation in the face. He suffers from neurological pain. He has no allergies. Success of the operation is to be confirmed as he has only just had this at Newmarket. I do know it doesnt always cure it and I do know that not all horses get through it because they face trauma (rub the face after the operation and do not stop).
Generally nerve face pain is very painful. He either had to have the operation or I put him down. Either way- I could loose this horse but I had to try.
Both horses showed similarties in their headshaking:
Nose rubbing - itchy especially after working.
shaking of the head
Differences:
The nerve (ideopathic) headshakers headshaking progressed from what I thought was seasonal to shaking his head all the time. A vertical head toss and he snorted alot.
The pollen headshaker only showed his irritation during work.
All in all- headshaking is very uncomfortable for the horse. I would go to your vet!!!!!
Hematoma
1. I had one horse that had a haematoma on his chest as a result of a heavy xc fall, no other injuries, it did not disperse and needed draining but took a long while to heal fully.
More recently a horse got one one his stifle, arguing with a fence, he had anti-inflammatory drugs and a gel to rub on the area to help reduce the swelling, it took about two months to reduce to be almost unnoticable but the vet did not want to risk draining as it can allow it to become infected.
More recently a horse got one one his stifle, arguing with a fence, he had anti-inflammatory drugs and a gel to rub on the area to help reduce the swelling, it took about two months to reduce to be almost unnoticable but the vet did not want to risk draining as it can allow it to become infected.
Hind medial suspensory branch strain
- He has been diagnosed with a mild medial suspensory branch strain and luckily it was caught early before too much damage was done. Although he has very wingally back legs anyway I knew that the type of swelling he developed two days following the injury was different to normal and because he was on/off unsound at in hand trot up, was pretty sure he'd done something sinister, I thought maybe it was the tendon sheath he'd done some seven or eight years ago. He was diagnosed following a trot up and flexion with palpation of the area. The vet said it was up to me if I wanted to have a scan but as I am no longer insured with anything to do with tendons/ligaments other than injury from a visible wound there didn't seem much point as he'd most likely still need the same amount /type of rehab.
The vet said he could have done it anywhere, in the field, stable or whilst riding and was more likely to be a repetive type of injury. This got me thinking about something I'd read recently in one of the equine publications that new research has shown that a lot of tendon injuries are caused by repetetive work, i.e schooling/lunging. Luckily where I am the surface is very good and is often harrowed but I know that's not always the case at some yards.
So Bailey is being ice cupped once a day, also ice booted, and was initialy cold hosed following the injury. He is having support bandages on at night and is back on anti inflammatories -, 2 per day for a fortnight then one a day for a fortnight, then half a sachet a day. Its a good prognosis for a full recovery if all goes well, but obviously with the chance of reoccurence which is the same as it was with the fore leg, when he did his lateral suspensory branch. Apparently the suspensory branch is one of the most common type of tendon/ligament strain.
With all his other problems the worse thing for him would be to shut him in the stable on box rest as he would just seize up so the vet has said hacking up to an hour a day walk only for the next month/staight lines in the school with a view to reassessment in a months time where, if all goes well, he can start trot work. After the third month if all is well he can start jumping again. He can go out in the sandpit where ours go in the winter, so luckily to trudging through deep boggy mud for him!
I am so pleased that the prognosis is good and I am fully prepared to give him the time he needs to heal. I am also very lucky that I have a good vet, who knows my horse and his problems inside out and is prepared to give him the time and effort and for good facilities at my yard which means that he can be turned out without the typical deep mud that just makes this type of inury ten times worse.
Last edited by applecart14; 22-02-15 at 11:41 AM.
e: Hind medial suspensory branch strainJust wondering why you'd ice boot during the day to cool down and then "support" bandage at night which will
30,104 Re: Hind medial suspensory branch strainAs the vet has said it is likely a sort of RSI do they think that it might have occurred because of him moving differently because of his other issues/compensating?
Just wondering why you'd ice boot during the day to cool down and then "support" bandage at night which will inevitably heat up?
Because icing is the best thing to do with any type of ligament/tendon injury. Support bandaging using stable bandages at night is also good because it offers compression. This is a common way of treating such an injury. Unfortunately you can't have it all ways, and providing bandaging is done with even pressure over gamgee or other similar padding it is considered the best thing to do even if it does heat up the tendon slightly. But he's had bioflow boots on every single night for the last eleven years so you could say the same thing about that I guess. Bandaging also provides support to the opposite limb which is important as the horse will be taking more weight onto the other limb.
Hi Ester, my vet says that his particular injury is one of the most common injuries for both dressage and showjumpers. He didn't say whether it was related to the other issues, but I would have thought not given the amount of time gone by now, since he last did his near fore suspensory, as this was nearly 2 years ago now. He was saying that its common in horses that are schooled on a surface as the recent equine magazine article I read pointed out. He also said he could have done it in the stable, out in the paddock, getting cast in the stable or going mad on the lunge (which he does every now and then).
Sprain of the suspensory ligament (suspensory desmitis) is usually restricted to one of three areas:
•injury to the upper third of the ligament (called high, or proximal, suspensory desmitis) is common in horses in all disciplines
•injury to the middle third, or body, of the ligament is easiest to diagnose, but least frequent. National hunt racehorses and point-to-pointers are most likely to suffer this injury
•damage to the inside or outside branch of the suspensory ligament is also common, particularly in horses which jump
Last edited by applecart14; 23-02-15 at 01:37 PM.
: Hind medial suspensory branch strainThat article extract amuses me a bit as it those three areas pretty much do cover the entire of the ligaments so it isn't really 'restricted' to those areas!
I only asked as we have one at home who is nearly 18 months from a lateral branch injury, in hacking work but moving differently to before which might increase the likelihoood of strain elsewhere particularly if jumping/schooling although we have no plans to do that with her.
$orry my $ button ha$ fallen off my laptop!
Woop it's mended
That article extract amuses me a bit as it those three areas pretty much do cover the entire of the ligaments so it isn't really 'restricted' to those areas!
I only asked as we have one at home who is nearly 18 months from a lateral branch injury, in hacking work but moving differently to before which might increase the likelihoood of strain elsewhere particularly if jumping/schooling although we have no plans to do that with her.
Hi Ester, I just grabbed an extract from the article because I was trying to point out that this kind of injury is prevalent in horses that SJ in particular. Obviously it isn't just confined to horses that SJ as your case proves. It can also be related to poor foot balance (xrays have shown my farrier is very expert in his field) and it can also relate to horses that are straight at the hock (something I don't believe Bailey is as people have always said he's got very nice confirmation).
Horses are very good at compensating. If something has hurt her previously then your filly will already have learnt to move in a different manner. The vet thought that is why Bailey appears slightly 'hoppy' on the opposite leg to the one he injured (with the suspensory branch injury he did 2 + years ago) due to overcompensation and has also mentioned 'mechanical lameness' to me previously as during a bute trial it was interesting to see the horse was more lame on three bute a day rather than half a sachet a day.
So if my experience is anything to go by, I would suggest getting a good physio to assess her, see where and how she moves differently and treat accordingly as this really helps. Eventually the 'hopping' dissapeared as I did more with the horse as slowly his health/fitness/injury improved and I was able to compete in unaffiliated dressage again without it being too apparent.
I am unclear whether your horse has an injury which is 18 months old, or SHE is 18 months old. I suspect it's not the latter as you wouldn't have her in hacking work???
was in full work pre injury- to lateral branch in front leg - though not much jumping as not her forte and not much school work as we don't have one at home! and does get physio etc I just think that we perhaps need to be careful with horses with previous injuries that they aren't then more susceptible to injuries elsewhere- always jumping off the same hind leg for example, hence why ours will only be hacking really.
Last edited by ester; 24-02-15 at 09:52 AM.
$orry my $ button ha$ fallen off my laptop!
Woop it's mended
She's 15 I just think that we perhaps need to be careful with horses with previous injuries that they aren't then more susceptible to injuries elsewhere- always jumping off the same hind leg for example, hence why ours will only be hacking really.
There is no link between the front suspensory injury of three years ago and the one last week. Bailey is only jumped at home once a week and goes down a grid of five fences maybe four or five times in total so isn't over jumped in the slightest. At shows (usually every third or fourth week) he does one practice jump per class and then one round per class and always two classes total at the show.
So I don't think its over work, lack of preparation or anything else, its just one of those things
Horses are so precious!
There is no link between the front suspensory injury of three years ago and the one last week. Bailey is only jumped at home once a week and goes down a grid of five fences maybe four or five times in total so isn't over jumped in the slightest. At shows (usually every third or fourth week) he does one practice jump per class and then one round per class and always two classes total at the show.
So I don't think its over work, lack of preparation or anything else, its just one of those things
Horses are so precious!
So he has TWO suspensory injuries in two different limbs and you think his prognosis is good? Suspensory injuries in the hind limbs are notoriously difficult to treat and heal . . . if I had a horse who had damaged suspensory ligaments in two different limbs I'd be either questioning my management or retiring or even considering having him PTS . . . one suspensory injury can be attributed to bad luck, two (in different limbs) would make me think there was an inherent weakness, and I'd certainly be curtailing his workload and not include jumping (competitive or otherwise).
I know this post will result in a "woe is me, you are bullying/attacking me, I love my horse, you just don't understand, he gets the best treatment" response from you . . . but I don't care. If you give half a damn about Bailey you'll stop jumping him, you'll change your vet and you'll be much, much more careful with him from now on. Medial suspensory injuries in the hind limb don't have a great prognosis. Please - take care of him. Stop jumping him. Stop mucking about with (at best) dodgy therapies. Turn him away - for a year - and then limit his work to what he can cope with . . . and if he can't cope with work, do the right thing.
30,104 Re: Hind medial suspensory branch strainYup they are precious, you don't seem to understand that a horse doesn't have to be doing lots of high jumping to put a significant pressure on it's limbs, taking off from the ground at all introduces a lot of force in the limbs.
I do find it difficult to see how 2 suspensory injuries within what is a relatively short time are completely unrelated to each other or to the other physical issues he has. We didn't even have a 'hole' just a slightly unhappy looking area and although she was walked in hand throughout the mare wasn't trotted until 12 months post injury, a mare that has never been lame in her previous 10 years with us. Pretty sure bailey was jumping by that point!
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. if I had a horse who had damaged suspensory ligaments in two different limbs I'd be either questioning my management or retiring or even considering having him PTS . . . .
P
Yes you are right Polar Skye. Vet is crap. Five years of vets school and fifteen years practising obviously was a waste of time. You are right, horse being pts next week on your advice, as if I would even contemplate that the vet knows more than a complete stranger who has never met the horse, read his notes, spent eleven years dealing treating the horse or seen him ridden pre injury.
Stop preaching and pretending to know something of which you know absolutely NOTHING about!!!! And stop acting all 'holier than thou" because you sound really false.
Last edited by applecart14; 26-02-15 at 10:49 AM.
. We didn't even have a 'hole' just a slightly unhappy looking area and !
At no stage did Bailey ever have a hole, I never stated that he had a hole. I am not sure where you have got this info from???? The vet said the xray indicated he had calcification in his suspensory ligament but he has come sound on this leg given adequate time off. The fore suspensory was a very slight sprain. This near hind injury is also a very slight sprain. The two are almost four years apart, it was June 2011 when he first did it although the near fore injury was compounded by teh fact he got the same leg stuck in a wheelbarrow and dragged around the yard.
Obviously the treatment of any sprain depends on the severity. Luckily Baileys first was very slight, and the second (now) is also very slight but was also caught very early, hence the difference in the treatment and prognosis for a return to work.
916 Re: Hind medial suspensory branch strainOP – I have followed some of your threads with interest ref your horse’s numerous injuries and ailments and whilst I don’t doubt the love you have for your horse, I do question your motives for continually putting him through treatment plan after treatment plan as being more about your needs than his. And I understand that to a degree, we all want our horses to be fit and well and to carry on doing the things we love (& assume they love too). But I do think now is the time you need to start some serious soul searching to decide what is best for this horse’s interests in the long term. I am not advocating you have him PTS, but I do think the time has come when you need to look at a quieter life for him, whether that is one of retirement or low level hacking.
I am also not suggesting his problems are down to you, these things are sometimes just bad luck, no matter how hard we try to protect our horses. But something must be wrong for this horse to continually ‘break’ and I think you need to explore that too, whether its conformation (which you can’t change), fitness, work regime and adapt your on-going management to suit.
I also know you take great exception to some forum members who question your management of this horse, but the reality is, if you keep posting about his ailments on a public forum you are going to attract comment / criticism from people. You say over and over again that none of us know the details of your horses injuries so we are not in a position to comment, yet you go into so much detail that I think a lot of members do feel they know because they can equate your horses problems to ones they have experienced themselves and the outcome of those problem. The simple answer, if you want to avoid comment, is don’t keep posting.
30,104 Re: Hind medial suspensory branch strainSigh - I never said that Bailey did have a hole.... just that our mare didn't have so it wasn't a major injury and her prognosis is still guarded and she was rehabbed a lot slower. It is obviously important to us that she stays comfortable and happy for as long as possible and a slow return to work and limitations to her workload is what she will do. Do you still believe that as long as you are jumping 'small' or only a few at a time that strain on the legs is limited, have you ever watched any slow mo video of horses jumping small fences?
4 years apart is still a relatively short time period in my book with regards to horses, especially as they aren't his only physical issues. I certainly don't ever remember him being completely sound/not having to be managed in some way. At the end of the day your vet is working for you not the horse so I am never surprised when you say how brilliant they are.
I mostly just wanted to add that suspensory rehab is not necessarily quite as easy/issue free/return to full work as your post might make out, even more so in a hind, and that there might be compounding reasons for the injury occurring. I already decided I was happy I wasn't Bailey a long time ago.
Last edited by ester; 27-02-15 at 01:26 PM.
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Yes you are right KautoStar1. Shame as I only post to help other people, and the reason why I started this particular post was to help others who may have had a similar problem with their horse.
My vet doesn't feel there is a problem with the management of the horse, nor with the workload I give him and that is for me enough, and I don't feel the need to continually justify myself to others.
The horse is not going to be retired. Nor is he going to be pts. The vet laughed when I told him what the people on this forum have said as have those that know the horse. They say its typical of this forum and why they have stopped using it themselves.
I won't be posting anything else about my horses problems.
Last edited by applecart14; 04-03-15 at 01:03 PM.
interesting isnt it because my vet would 100% say retire it or PTS because they never come back from multiple injuries of this type to anything bar pasture sound, especially in older horses where the injury is due to workload only ie no catastrophic accident/injury.
this horse has been on and off lame the entire time ive been a forum member-does that not tell you he cannot cope with his work? his body is trying to tell you it cannot continue at this level and you ignore it.
shame on you and shame on your vet for encouraging you albeit i would be interested to hear his side, from him,without you present!
30,104 Re: Hind medial suspensory branch strainI don't remember him ever being sound either PS, I think that is what gets to me a bit for him.
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916 Re: Hind medial suspensory branch strainSorry OP, I don’t quite agree with you when you say you post to help other people. Your posts are specifically about your horse, which usually start along the lines of ‘Bailey has been diagnosed with…..’ But I stand to be corrected, maybe other people do find your updates useful. Personally, whenever I read your posts I think ‘oh no, not again’, I don’t read them looking for helpful advice.
And I just don’t see how him continually being broken is a sign of good management. Something is fundamentally wrong and surely you have to stop and consider if what you want to do and how you are approaching these things (eg through fitness and appropriate training) and what your horse is capable of, actually match up.
I genuinely do think you need to take a step back and look at things with a little more logic. Imagine if this was you. And there is no point in saying well he loves to jump, if physically he’s not able to withstand the stresses and strains. What he likes and what is ultimately best for him are different things.
For all of us, we will get to a stage where our horses are no longer fit for the purpose we may have initially bought them for. However, that doesn’t mean we continue to push them beyond their limits but it does mean we do the right thing for them in their twilight years. Sometimes that means the ultimate sacrifice and other times it means a slower pace or life or full retirement. I think you need to think about that. Sadly I know you wont
656 Re: Hind medial suspensory branch strainAnd why does this thread not surprise me... OP something needs to change. Time after time I read about lameness problems with this particular horses so do not expect sympathy. This horse is not up to the workload you are asking for and has broken, simple. He needs a different vet opinion, some good time off at rest and may well be suited to a quieter life somewhere. Horses owe us nothing and there is no need to bring him back into jumping for him to break again.
777 Re: Hind medial suspensory branch strainNot sure if it is of interest but I've got a big ISH diagnosed with hind suspensory knackerings (roots and branch I think) which we believe occurred secondary to kissing spines operation carried out 2 years ago.....he's also had v tightness in SI joint which we have medicated....fingers crossed he's rehabbing ok at the moment...
2,116 Re: Hind medial suspensory branch strainHistory of the horse aside, I would be concerned about the short recovery period you have referenced in your initial post OP.
My horse injured the medial branch of his left hind suspensory back in 2008 as an 11yo, he was eventing at PN level at the time. Vet advised it was a chronic (e.g. repetitive strain) injury rather than an acute accident type, also showing some calcification on the scan. His recommended recovery period was much longer, and I then added a bit on. I believe too much work on a surface (and it was a v good one!) coupled with him needing to wear wedge pads behind at the time, were the cause of the injury. He was box rested for 5 months in total, month 1 was 10mins walking daily, month 2 20mins walking, month 3 30mins walking, month 4 added short trot, month 5 40mins walking and 5 mins trot. He also had a course of Adequan injections and a course of shockwave treatment to the area in the first month after diagnosis. At this point I found grass livery for him and turned him away for 3 months. After the 3 months, I got back on him and spent the next 4 months very slowly bringing him back into work. He did his first ODE 14 months after the injury was diagnosed.
I totally changed how I managed him and I believe this has helped him carry on working for the last 7yrs with no further issues, he is 18yo now and since the injury has evented, team chased and drag hunted, and is still eventing/jumping! He lives out 24/7/365 and has done since I turned him away, no wedges behind (a period shoeless whilst recovering from the injury cured the need for them) and I try to limit school sessions to 3x a week max. Much more hacking now.
Time is absolutely the best remedy for tendon/ligament issues, and I really would reconsider the length of time you spend rehabbing him and also how he is managed once sound, e.g. workload, environment and so on.
I am always concerned when I hear of people saying horse has tendon/ligament strain and then they are back jumping it after only a few months.
As my story is a positive one, I thought it would be worth sharing. And my horse did not have any icing or bandaging as part of his treatment, I am not a fan of bandaging in the stable unless absolutely necessary.
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916 Re: Hind medial suspensory branch strainMine did a similar rehab plan for a tendon injury although he was on box rest for 8 months with controlled exercise during that time. I don't think he cantered until month 9. Loads and loads of steady road work on like you AandK I manage him very carefully. I didn't bandage either so as to avoid over heating the leg. One thing I did find very useful was the spa and he had 10 sessions in that at the time. In fact I still use it now as a preventative measure (we have one on the yard very handy)
However as far as OP is concerned you are banging your head on a brick wall, as you can probably gather from some of the previous posts.
However as far as OP is concerned you are banging your head on a brick wall, as you can probably gather from some of the previous posts.
Just taking vets advice Kauto Star. The way you talk about me is disgusting by the way.
With the first suspensory branch injury he had many months of time off with shockwave and injections and then when he reinjured it on the wheelbarrow he then had PRP and the rehab was slow and careful. He came back into full work fine and remained sound ever since on that leg. This is another leg and a very slight sprain which dictates a different kind of rehab. Its not rocket science. When he goes back to the vets at the end of the month I will see if he has made any progress and if not I will give him the time he needs. As I have already explained the horse is not an ideal candidate for box rest so this is out of the question. I will try and put my vets discharge report on here as I know a couple of you have commented that the vet would tell people differently had I not been present which I think is really unfair.
It appears that the likes of Princess Sparkle and another band of posters are people that know me, and PS is (or was on my FB page until someone told me they had actually been stalking me! so I have blocked them) I would suggest they get a life. Yeah, it might be fine for you to have a stableload of horses and just fling them out in the field when they are broken but I prefer to try and sort out my horses problem as I am a one hrose owner. If I can afford to do this then so be it the horse is lucky that he has someone who is willing to put the work in and get him well again.
I hope you are proud of the way you speak on your replies. I may be a lot of things but at least I am kind of heart and don't treat people in the shi**y way that you do and I am proud of that.
So go take your bullying bitchiness somewhere else and stop being so unkind. Especially you Fran as you are worse one of all.
As I have already explained the horse is not an ideal candidate for box rest so this is out of the question.
FWIW, I don't think anyone has an issue with you resting Bailey in the field. It's perfect possible to rehab a horse with a soft tissue injury without box rest - although not ideal. My boy was a nutcase on box rest with his suspensory injury so we took the decision (with vet's permission) to turn him out with a companion for a couple of hours or so a day.
It appears that the likes of Princess Sparkle and another band of posters are people that know me, and PS is (or was on my FB page until someone told me they had actually been stalking me! so I have blocked them) I would suggest they get a life.
I hope this isn't true - if is, then it's rather sad. I've certainly never stalked you (or anyone else) - I don't even know your real name.
Yeah, it might be fine for you to have a stableload of horses and just fling them out in the field when they are broken but I prefer to try and sort out my horses problem as I am a one hrose owner. If I can afford to do this then so be it the horse is lucky that he has someone who is willing to put the work in and get him well again.
I'm not sure why this comment is relevant or what it means. Are you implying that PS wouldn't bother to treat her horses because she has more than one and therefore doesn't care about them as much as you care about Bailey? That's a pretty sweeping assumption (not to mention unfair/unkind). Also, I can assure you that not everyone who has replied with their own experiences of rehabbing their own horses with suspensory (or tendon) injuries has more than one horse - I certainly don't, Pops is my one and only - but that's pretty much irrelevant . . . rather baffled.
So go take your bullying bitchiness somewhere else and stop being so unkind. Especially you Fran as you are worse one of all.
Pretty sure it's against forum rules to mention posters by their real names (not that I have a clue which poster you have "outed") - if I were you, I'd edit the above sentence.
Yeah, it might be fine for you to have a stableload of horses and just fling them out in the field when they are broken but I prefer to try and sort out my horses problem as I am a one hrose owner. If I can afford to do this then so be it the horse is lucky that he has someone who is willing to put the work in and get him well again.
I/my mum are one horse owners. we will always try to fix them as much as possible but they will only ever do the work within their physical capabilities. Frank is currently in full work, Cally is not and will not be jumping and probably not schooling again. If either were to injure themselves badly enough that I thought it unethical to work them they would be a happy field companion. Just because you turn a horse away doesn't mean that you don't care about it or aren't trying to get it better. The trouble is Bailey doesn't have just one problem to solve and from what you have said (which is all I have to go on) I find what you do with him unethical.
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I/my mum are one horse owners. we will always try to fix them as much as possible but they will only ever do the work within their physical capabilities. Frank is currently in full work, Cally is not and will not be jumping and probably not schooling again. If either were to injure themselves badly enough that I thought it unethical to work them they would be a happy field companion. Just because you turn a horse away doesn't mean that you don't care about it or aren't trying to get it better. The trouble is Bailey doesn't have just one problem to solve and from what you have said (which is all I have to go on) I find what you do with him unethical.
Yep, same here. Andy is my only ridden horse (I have another who at 25yo is retired) and I did not just throw him out in the field because he was broken, I turned him out to heal and be a horse after being stuck in a stable for 5months. I care about this horse deeply, he is my horse of a lifetime and a one in a million. I would of never forgiven myself if I'd pushed him too fast too soon and the injury had reoccurred, hence me taking plenty of time to bring him back.
The trouble is Bailey doesn't have just one problem to solve and from what you have said (which is all I have to go on) I find what you do with him unethical.
First of all I respect what you are saying and I hear what you say Ester but the problems with him have been fixed. The spavin has been sorted by fusion and xrays have shown the hocks have fused. The coffin joint arthritis was sorted with 3 steroid injections covering an 11 year history, so hardly detrimental to his well being. The suspensory near fore is fully healed and the horse has been sound, albeit with an addition of buteless in his feed. The colic episodes have cut and he has had one episode in nearly two years (I believe the reason for the colics previously were to do with the fact that his previous yard was an ex dairy farm and the grazing was too rich for him). Many, many horses have multiple problems, but if they are under a vet and treated accordingly and successfully then I don't understand what the issue is. There are many that aren't treated and that are still ridden and competed and I see this time and time again, the owners either don't know or don't care. At least I have had his problems fixed and he is happy and healthy which is the most important thing.
He has no other issues that I am aware of (other than the one he is being treated with). So I don't really know where you are seeing the unethicial part. All through history horses have been injured and come back into work. Its not as if I am really aggressive with the work I do with him, he is schooled (or was prior to the injury) for about 25 mins four nights a week, most of it comprising of warming up in walk so really only about 15 mins of trot/canter (floodlight meter is £1 for half hour). Then hacked out for an hour to 2 hours once a week, the other day was competition (dressage, fun ride or unaff jumping at 2ft 6/9) or jumping practice at home comprising of grid work (five fences usually jumped about four / five times max). One day off a week where he is treated to a 'spa day' and is thoroughly massaged/groomed, trimmed, mane pulled and given extra loving.
I will see what the vet says when he goes back later this month. I will never push him beyond his capabilities/ability/body and will ALWAYS take vets advice. My current vet is away on holiday when I am due to go back and as a direct result of what has been said on this forum to me will ask him his opinion. A fresh pair of eyes may give a different answer. I will ask him if he feels I am pushing too much and ask his opinion on rest and rehab and see what he says.
I only have and have always had Bailey's best interests at heart. As you can see from my photos my horse is fit and well and is really loved and looked after and I have never wanted to or intended to cause him harm, he really is my world and I love him to bits. I am crying as I type this, I really do find all this very stressful and hard and am trying my best to do what is right but listening the vet being so optimistic and saying the injury is a slight strain and given the three month suggested rehab time and then everyone on here implying that I am cruel, I don't know what to believe anymore.
you can see my boy is loved and looked after by the photos (if a little too fat)! Lets see what the vets say at his next check up and take it from there.
I'd suggest that this injury is a slight sprain as the vet suggests but I do think you (and the vet) need to take this horse as a whole and would be considering whether the hock fusions may make him more susceptible to hind suspensory issues etc. The coffin joint arthritis is also managed not cured as it arthritis by its very nature is progressive.
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I'd suggest that this injury is a slight sprain as the vet suggests but I do think you (and the vet) need to take this horse as a whole and would be considering whether the hock fusions may make him more susceptible to hind suspensory issues etc. The coffin joint arthritis is also managed not cured as it arthritis by its very nature is progressive.
Yes you are right about the spavin - I know that with the fusion using ethanol the nerves in the hocks can regrow, but my understanding is that its a fairly recent procedure and I don't think there have been any long term studies to see if horses have had their nerves regrow, but I may be wrong. Certainly it has a high success rate, and there are a number of horses from this practice which have had this procedure quite successfully from what I can work out.
I didn't know that the hock fusion would mean that he was more susceptible to hind suspensory injuries, certainly this wasn't mentioned at the time, but we were more concerned with getting that weight shift from the off hind onto the damaged near fore at the time, so you may well be right, maybe this is a question for the vet at his next check up? I think he had the fusion about January 2012 but to be honest I am losing track of dates myself. I only found out a while after the procedure that had it failed that nothing more could have been done as there's no room in the joint space for any top ups of steroid/HA. I know a horse that only one of his hocks worked.
The coffin joint arthritis was considered upon xray to be moderate to severe but given the fact the horse has only had three injections (the gap between the first and the second was around four/five years) makes me wonder if it was even pain originating from the coffin joint - surely there is no way that a simple steroid injection can ward of pain for four or five years? He did have a slightly active splint at the time. The last x-ray of the coffin joint I think (again confused with dates) was around Oct 2013 (may be wrong on this) and no significant changes were seen, in fact there was hardly any differences at all.
I need to try to get as much weight off him as I can, he is around the weight of the photo of him clipped and I would like to get him around the weight of the 'stood with cross ties' photo if I can. And of course I am needing desperately to lose weight too in order to help him as much as possible. Certainly the battle to his weight loss will be much easier than mine will be!
Last edited by applecart14; 13-03-15 at 12:23 PM.
Yep, same here. Andy is my only ridden horse (I have another who at 25yo is retired) and I did not just throw him out in the field because he was broken, I turned him out to heal and be a horse after being stuck in a stable for 5months. I care about this horse deeply, he is my horse of a lifetime and a one in a million. I would of never forgiven myself if I'd pushed him too fast too soon and the injury had reoccurred, hence me taking plenty of time to bring him back.
Sorry Aand K I wasn't suggesting that people that 'threw their horses into a field' didn't care about them, but its so much easier if you have other horses to fall back on. And sometimes as I have explained previously, with some horses it can be more detrimental to turn them away for an extended period than to keep them working on bute or as part of a rehab programme. Unfortunately my patience got the better of me and I was being rather glib about 'flinging horses out in the field' but my inpatience is borne from frustration, upset and anger from months and months of battering on this website from certain people (same old people) that stalk, taunt and bully their way through my FB page and H&H page. I can see them 'stalking' me on H&H on my home page (in the last ten people to look at your site) and then the next day they will suddenly (as if by magic) come across one of my posts and start their campaign of nastiness all over again. Its the same old people, and its personal. And when I retaliate and try and explain they say "you always say we are bullying you, woe is me, we are meant to feel sorry for you" etc, etc as if that is an excuse to continue in the same vein with their unkindness. There is really, really no excuse or need for it its just plain nastiness and unkindness, no matter how you dress it up. Someone said 'your hrose has never been right from day one'. That's really not true. He's been diagnosed with things for one reason, and one reason only; because I've bothered to spend hundreds/thousands getting things diagnosed, that other people probably wouldn't even bother to do. I could have stuck my head in the sand and pretended nothing was wrong but every time I've got the vet out its because I wanted to know what was wrong. I've had the vet out when others wouldn't because I worry I might miss things but I have the sense to know when I don't need to also. There's been periods of months and years when he has been sound, more time sound than not.
I come on here to help people and do not start of every post with 'my horse has been diagnosed with' or anything of the sort like someone recently suggested. Mostly I help people with problems that have happened or I've come across myself. I talk about everything from hacking with fluorescent, to bad dressage judges, to what I'm buying my horse for Xmas.
I'm not having a go at you Aandk just trying to explain things.
Last edited by applecart14; 13-03-15 at 12:38 PM.
30,104 Re: Hind medial suspensory branch strainI'm not sure there is a connection so def check with vets though IMO they are too closely linke for one not to have the poss of not helping each other. If I were you going forwards I would want to make sure he was 100% happy hacking before considering any school work and that would stay very light for a time. I've been doing more in hand work with frank a a lesson recently was really interesting as part schooling/part physical therapy from the ground.
I've been doing more in hand work with frank a a lesson recently was really interesting as part schooling/part physical therapy from the ground.
Yes I might explore that a little more, although I am always stuck for ideas. I have a dually which makes life a little easier. Not sure I would be able to ask much in hand lateral work/rein back, nor raised trot poles, will have to ask. thanks for your help.
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30,104 Re: Hind medial suspensory branch strainMy lesson was with a classical trainer, in a cavesson and concentrating on varying the degrees of bend, getting his shoulders to take a step outwards and gradually into some shoulder in. - I discovered that he is a bit too straight and even! It was definitely a less is more sort of thing.
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R
. Especially you Fran as you are worse one of all.
I object. You told me I was the worst one of all. I really don't like being demoted.
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5,035 Re: Hind medial suspensory branch strain Originally Posted by Auslander
I object. You told me I was the worst one of all. I really don't like being demoted.
lol
916 Re: Hind medial suspensory branch strainSorry OP but you keep saying your horse is fit & well but clearly he's not is he ? And he has had a catalogue of injuries over the years that surely must make you think he is not up to the work load you are giving him.
I'm not suggesting you don't care about him but just because you have spent thousands of pounds doesn't mean you are continually doing the right thing.
I only have one horse and I understand the misery of a serious injury. Not many of us can afford to run more than one horse so I get the desire to help our equine friends get well. I just think your own desire to jump and do fun rides etc is clouding your judgment of what is best for your horse !!!
branch strain My horse has been diagnosed with a mild medial suspensory branch strain and luckily it was caught early before too much damage was done. Although he has very wingally back legs anyway I knew that the type of swelling he developed two days following the injury was different to normal and because he was on/off unsound at in hand trot up, was pretty sure he'd done something sinister, I thought maybe it was the tendon sheath he'd done some seven or eight years ago. He was diagnosed following a trot up and flexion with palpation of the area. The vet said it was up to me if I wanted to have a scan but as I am no longer insured with anything to do with tendons/ligaments other than injury from a visible wound there didn't seem much point as he'd most likely still need the same amount /type of rehab.
The vet said he could have done it anywhere, in the field, stable or whilst riding and was more likely to be a repetive type of injury. This got me thinking about something I'd read recently in one of the equine publications that new research has shown that a lot of tendon injuries are caused by repetetive work, i.e schooling/lunging. Luckily where I am the surface is very good and is often harrowed but I know that's not always the case at some yards.
So Bailey is being ice cupped once a day, also ice booted, and was initialy cold hosed following the injury. He is having support bandages on at night and is back on anti inflammatories -, 2 per day for a fortnight then one a day for a fortnight, then half a sachet a day. Its a good prognosis for a full recovery if all goes well, but obviously with the chance of reoccurence which is the same as it was with the fore leg, when he did his lateral suspensory branch. Apparently the suspensory branch is one of the most common type of tendon/ligament strain.
With all his other problems the worse thing for him would be to shut him in the stable on box rest as he would just seize up so the vet has said hacking up to an hour a day walk only for the next month/staight lines in the school with a view to reassessment in a months time where, if all goes well, he can start trot work. After the third month if all is well he can start jumping again. He can go out in the sandpit where ours go in the winter, so luckily to trudging through deep boggy mud for him!
I am so pleased that the prognosis is good and I am fully prepared to give him the time he needs to heal. I am also very lucky that I have a good vet, who knows my horse and his problems inside out and is prepared to give him the time and effort and for good facilities at my yard which means that he can be turned out without the typical deep mud that just makes this type of inury ten times worse.
HIVES
Horses can have a reaction to a bite or sting, and become very itchy, the more they rub the more they break down the malets Cells which make the situation worst and spreads all of the body. Cold hosing can ease the itching and swelling and reduce the blood rushing to the area. You must get a vet out to asses the situation , where he will most likely give a steroid injection.
Urticaria is seen as localized, raised bumps on the skin. These can vary in number, severity, and frequency of occurrence. Inflammation induced by allergens causes small veins to dilate and increase capillary permeability in the skin. "Fluid" leaks into surrounding tissues to form wheals or plaques of edema (fluid swelling). These first appear as small, firm lumps, which might coalesce into a large plaque or line of bumps. In a case of noncomplicated hives, overlying skin appears normal with no hair loss and usually no itching.
At all times a horse's body is under siege from the abundance of microorganisms present everywhere. A healthy immune system keeps these minute organisms at bay as inflammatory cells wage invisible battles to repel foreign proteins (antigens) attempting to invade the body. Normally, the immune system holds its line of defense without the horse even knowing that its immune system is at work.
When microbes invade and colonize, a horse shows clinical signs of disease. But occasionally, an immune response overreacts to a noninfectious cause. Such a hypersensitivity response is referred to as an allergy; it can range from a serious, life-threatening systemic reaction (anaphylaxis) to a mild, but disagreeable, skin reaction such as hives or itching.
Hives are a clinical sign rather than a specific disease. Also referred to as urticaria, hives tend to develop about the neck and shoulders, along the thorax, and on the buttocks. Urtica is Latin for "stinging nettle" and if you've ever walked through a copse of stinging nettles, besides immediate discomfort you'll appreciate just how quickly bumps form on your skin. Horse owners often refer to these bumps as feed bumps, protein bumps, or heat bumps, since these terms describe some causes of hives. Usually, an allergic reaction remains localized to the skin, but if clinical signs persist or are not arrested early on, there might be a systemic response as the internal workings of a horse's body wage war on the offending allergen.
What is an Allergy?
Constant surveillance by a horse's immune system helps it recognize foreign proteins as a threat. In response, the immune system manufactures antibody proteins directed toward specific antigenic targets. Patrick Hensel, DrMedVet, Dipl. ACVD, is a board-certified specialist in dermatology at the University of Georgia College of Veterinary Medicine. He explains, "An allergic reaction usually is not present with first exposure to an allergenic protein. Clinical signs start to appear once the skin becomes sensitized and re-exposed to an offending allergen."
Because hypersensitivity reactions take weeks to months or even years to develop, a sudden onset of hives is not necessarily a result of a recent change; this makes it difficult to pin down the actual source of the problem.
"An allergic reaction usually is not present with first exposure to an allergenic protein. Clinical signs start to appear once the skin becomes sensitized and re-exposed to an offending allergen." --Patrick Hensel, DrMedVet, Dipl. ACVD Hensel notes, "Many causes of urticaria have been identified, including medications such as antibiotics, antiparasitic drugs, hormones, vaccines, foods like plants, hay, and supplements, or are due to hypersensitivities like an adverse food reaction, contact allergy, or genetically linked atopy (an allergic reaction with strong family tendencies). Occasionally urticaria develops from bacterial, fungal, or parasitic infections, or from stinging insects."
Allergen-specific antibodies (immunoglobulin E, or IgE), preprogrammed on first exposure, trigger a Type I hypersensitivity reaction the next time they encounter that antigen. The unique structure of IgE antibodies allows them to bind to the surface of mast cells (resident cells of connective tissue) and basophils (specialized white blood cells) and sensitize them. When sensitized mast cells again contact the allergen, they release biochemical substances such as prostaglandins and histamines, which elicit a cascade of inflammatory events. Once this chain reaction is under way, localized inflammation begins within minutes of the chemical summons.
Hives can develop on the skin in as few as 15 minutes or up to 24 hours following exposure to a foreign protein; luckily, they resolve as quickly.
What are Hives?
Urticaria is seen as localized, raised bumps on the skin. These can vary in number, severity, and frequency of occurrence.
Inflammation induced by allergens causes small veins to dilate and increase capillary permeability in the skin. "Fluid" leaks into surrounding tissues to form wheals or plaques of edema (fluid swelling). These first appear as small, firm lumps, which might coalesce into a large plaque or line of bumps. In a case of noncomplicated hives, overlying skin appears normal with no hair loss and usually no itching.
William Miller, VMD, Dipl. ACVD, chief of dermatology at Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine and board-certified in dermatology, says other types of horse bumps are composed of cells rather than "fluid" so you can usually tell the difference by their feel. Hives are easily compressed, leaving behind a fingertip imprint of pitting edema, whereas other nodular lesions have cellular infiltration, such as scar tissue or a tumor, and they are firm and noncompressible.
Miller notes that the size of a wheal (hive) is influenced by various things, but, he stresses, "In the broadest sense, the bigger the hive, the more reactive the horse. A typical hive takes between 15 and 30 minutes to reach its maximum size. Once the trigger event is gone, the hive usually only lasts for an hour or so."
In certain situations, though, the hive process can persist. Miller clarifies, "If a horse eats something he is allergic to, hives can last for days. However, an individual hive bump does not last that long. As one hive disappears, a new one appears, making an owner believe that the hives are persisting. The only way to follow a specific hive bump is to circle an individual lesion, then check it hourly."
Hensel notes, "Pollens, foods, and drugs are the most likely 'systemic' causes of hives, which is a common clinical sign in horses with allergies. However, nonallergic factors such as pressure, sunlight, heat, cold, exercise, psychological stress, genetic abnormalities, and adverse reactions to drugs or chemicals need to be kept in mind as potential causes of urticaria."
Any of these factors can intensify an allergic response.
Both practitioners report that insects are not usually a direct cause of hives, unless a horse is allergic to that particular insect. Hensel elaborates: "Papular urticaria are small-diameter (3-6 mm) reddened bumps with the appearance of hives. More typically, insect bite hypersensitivities cause other clinical signs such as seasonal itch. Associated intense itching causes these horses to continually traumatize themselves with scratching, rubbing, and biting. This creates hair loss, crusting lesions, and skin trauma, particularly along the mane, base of the tail, lower thorax, and abdomen."
An allergic response of hives is not usually associated with itching or pain, but in some cases itching is observed.
One other type of allergic manifestation is a disease called atopy, which tends to be a multifactorial problem that includes a genetic predisposition. Anecdotally, Arabians or Thoroughbreds have been reported to be at higher risk. Typically, the problem shows up by age 4, or it can appear in a mature horse when he is moved to a sensitizing environment.
Atopy describes a skin or respiratory allergic response to sensitizing antibodies in the environment. These are often seasonal allergens like pollens, molds, grasses, weeds, trees, insects, or dust mites, and they have been attributable to materials such as blankets or saddle pads. Miller and Hensel stress that atopic horses can be itchy, have hives, or both, making it difficult to identify the underlying cause.
What to Do for Acute Hives
Call your veterinarian right away in the case of an acute allergic response. Miller says that most horses with hives could care less, but "some horses itch, and for those individuals, cool water soaks might help relieve your horse's discomfort," he says. "But in general, I wouldn't recommend doing anything. You want your veterinarian to see your horse as is and not as modified by drugs or topical medications."
Hensel reports, "Hives rarely affect the general health of the horse and usually disappear within one to two days. In such cases, treatment is not necessary. In more severe cases, treatment may be indicated with epinephrine and corticosteroids." Although antihistamines don�t seem to work very well for acute hives, an antihistamine like hydroxyzine might limit the allergic response.
Before implementing any treatment during an attack, your vet will attempt to differentiate an allergic response from infections such as skin parasites or bacterial/fungal (ringworm) infections.
HERPES VIRUS 5
This condition can come out the blue and you won't be aware of it till the horse starts coughing getting lethargic and loosing weight or leaving it's hard feed. This is not contagious so other horses re not in at risk from the horses suffering from this. Time is important for the horses survival and vet needs to be called out and referral maybe necessary for the horses best chance.
HORSE OWNERS COMMENT
My livery horse started coughing and the owners asked for wet hay- this was done and worked continued over the next few weeks. The horse gradually started leaving some of it's feed and lying down a lot in the field, sometimes getting up moving a few feet and getting down again. It started making take note and gradually weight started coming off, till one day in the field the horse got up and he as very tucked up and looked in poor shape and I advised thee owners called the vet. The vet came and took temperatures where she found it high and his rectal showed displacement of the bowel. Over the next two days horse seemed still bad and more weight loss and vet called back, this time rectal showed bowel moving in another position and temperature higher. Horse was refereed to the RVC where after many tests they found he had pneumonia and then herpes 5. 50/50 chance of survival, over the following week with anti biotics and steroids the temperature came down and we were allowed to bring him home. This is where we are at still 50/50 but antibiotics and steroids and 2 x 2 hours of grazing.
Heterozygous PSSM
- My friend has a 5 yo mare with PSSM and she is very carefully managed. She is in a paddock by herself with neighbours next door for company. She is lightly backed (the vet recommended waiting) at the moment, with the aim to get her broken in this year. She is on very very poor grazing to minimise the sugar intake, and gets about a haynet and a half of hay overnight. She has 3 small feeds throughout the day made up of copra coolstance and speedibeet with pink powder added in and her condition is spot on. She is very well rugged all throughout the year to make sure she doesnt get cold.
- An important part of the management of PSSM horses is daily exercise. This enhances glucose utilization, and improves energy metabolism in skeletal muscle. If only the diet is changed, we found that approximately 50% of horses improve. If both diet and exercise are altered, then 90% of horses have had no or few episodes of tying-up.
HORMONAL MARES
1. A normal mare comes into season in the spring and summer and not in winter and exhibits all or none of the following behaviour changes when in heat: being difficult, frisky, awkward, cranky, distracted, dull, unresponsive and domineering. Also squealing, frequently peeing, upholding her tail, spreading legs, crouching and having a winking vulva.
2. The length of a horse’s cycle is 21 days and there are 7 frisky months with cycles and 5 quiet months with no cycles.
3. Signs of heat may be more obvious when stallions are around. Quiet shy mares generally show fewer signs of heat, dominant mares greater signs of heat. Stress also tends to lessen signs of heat.
4. An abnormally moody mare – abnormally hormonal – exhibits the following signs: in heat more often than normal or has cycles in the winter, difficult to tack up, unable to take part in competitions, too difficult to manage when in heat even with good management practice and upsetting all the other horses in the paddock.
5. Hormonal imbalance is often the cause of moody mare abnormal behaviour which may be caused by over-eating plants like clover and legumes containing chemicals which mimic hormones. But the more likely causes are man- introduced and not part of the horse’s natural environment. Polycarbonate plastics can strongly affect hormones and are used in drinking water containers. Many foods are packed full of hormones and even oats and carrots contain some oestrogen. Some people believe ingredients such as soya can cause problems.6. Apart from keeping a daily log of your abnormally moody mare’s behaviour to show to your vet there are other steps you should consider which have been set out in Global Herbs free brochure entitled "How to Deal with Hormonal Mares".
Please email [email protected] giving your full name and postal address to receive a copy.
7. Your horse vet is the best person to advise on the varied approaches. Some of these are: use a progesterone-like medicine which makes your moody mare think it’s pregnant, injections to remove cysts, surgery to remove ovaries, and insertion of marbles in the womb to mimic pregnancy.
8. Herbal supplements are a great way of helping your moody mare maintain normal levels of comfort and calm. But a hormonal soother should not be used in pregnant mares and those due to conceive.
2. The length of a horse’s cycle is 21 days and there are 7 frisky months with cycles and 5 quiet months with no cycles.
3. Signs of heat may be more obvious when stallions are around. Quiet shy mares generally show fewer signs of heat, dominant mares greater signs of heat. Stress also tends to lessen signs of heat.
4. An abnormally moody mare – abnormally hormonal – exhibits the following signs: in heat more often than normal or has cycles in the winter, difficult to tack up, unable to take part in competitions, too difficult to manage when in heat even with good management practice and upsetting all the other horses in the paddock.
5. Hormonal imbalance is often the cause of moody mare abnormal behaviour which may be caused by over-eating plants like clover and legumes containing chemicals which mimic hormones. But the more likely causes are man- introduced and not part of the horse’s natural environment. Polycarbonate plastics can strongly affect hormones and are used in drinking water containers. Many foods are packed full of hormones and even oats and carrots contain some oestrogen. Some people believe ingredients such as soya can cause problems.6. Apart from keeping a daily log of your abnormally moody mare’s behaviour to show to your vet there are other steps you should consider which have been set out in Global Herbs free brochure entitled "How to Deal with Hormonal Mares".
Please email [email protected] giving your full name and postal address to receive a copy.
7. Your horse vet is the best person to advise on the varied approaches. Some of these are: use a progesterone-like medicine which makes your moody mare think it’s pregnant, injections to remove cysts, surgery to remove ovaries, and insertion of marbles in the womb to mimic pregnancy.
8. Herbal supplements are a great way of helping your moody mare maintain normal levels of comfort and calm. But a hormonal soother should not be used in pregnant mares and those due to conceive.
Hoof Suplements:
- Equimins HoofMender
- Formula4feet
- Equimins Laminator
- D&H Surefoot
- Seaweed
- Linseed
- black sunflower seeds
- Farriers Farourite
- NAF ProFeet liquid
Hoof Care for /Brittle/ Cracked feet
- Rubbing Cornucresine round the coronet every day helps to stimulate good growth
- Solar Oil
Poor hoof quality or growth
Homaeopathy Graphities - Silica
Tissue salts Silica
Herbs Burdock - chickweed- Comfrey - figwort - Nettles
Pus in foot;
Hepar sulph and Ledum in early stages Silica in the later stages
Hoof Care Links
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Hoof abscess
Hoof abscesses are sometimes hard to spot unless the horse
is very lame with it. You have to be careful with infections in the hoof
for fear of infecting the bone. Most however once burst give the horse immediate
relief. Sometimes you have to tub the hoof to dry drain the pus out, this
is done by placing epsom salts in very warm water (shy of boiling) but not to
hot to burn the horse. Careful not to allow the water to far up the hood
wall for fear of the pus being drawn upwards.
The water should be about 1 - 1 1/2 inches maximum up the horn of the hoof and keep the hoof in there for at least 10 minutes or as long as the horse will stand in it. Tubbing should be done daily until its clear of any pus coming out and in the initial stages a hot poultice also to help drain then change onto dry poultice for a few days. Stockholm tar can be used in conjunction with cotton wool to pack the hole. Check with the vet is always advisable.
The water should be about 1 - 1 1/2 inches maximum up the horn of the hoof and keep the hoof in there for at least 10 minutes or as long as the horse will stand in it. Tubbing should be done daily until its clear of any pus coming out and in the initial stages a hot poultice also to help drain then change onto dry poultice for a few days. Stockholm tar can be used in conjunction with cotton wool to pack the hole. Check with the vet is always advisable.
Here is one abscess in the bulb of the heel and hard to detec sometimes